Michael Miley is one of the best rock & roll drummers in the world. In this wide-ranging interview, we discuss secrets to his outlier excellence that can help you in your own life, the wild road to his conversion to Catholicism, and what it’s like to witness as a Christian sharing the stage with legendary rockers like Ozzy Osbourne and Guns ‘n Roses.

We cover everything from the state of popular music today, why joy is necessary to make you an outlier in any field, Miley’s routines that have made him so good at his craft, and how you can glorify God in all that you do—from office work to hobbies to keeping the beat for a rock band.

As someone who considered himself a spiritual seeker, Miley went from a gnostic…to a Krishna…to a Christian…to a Catholic. He beautifully describes his conversion story, why he feels at home in the Catholic Church, and how he offers up every performance as a sacrifice to co-create the kingdom of God on earth. How cool is that?!

This interview contains some of the most unique and joyful content we’ve ever had on this show. I may have even broken out some air drumming—and maybe talked about jamming in my living room!

It’s amazing to see how God works through the unlikeliest of people and places—even rock & rollers at rock concerts—to reveal his love for us. Rock on.

Check out Mike Miley’s band Rival Sons: rivalsons.com